Tuesday, January 30, 2007

Topic for the day - Take 12

Complete Analysis

Hey guys,

I assume that the disappointing participation for the last GD was because of the lack of knowledge of the stock market. I accept that the topic may have been tough. I shall give some pointers on that in my analysis tomorrow.

So here comes a new topic so that people are comfortable and we carry on the learning and the preparation with the same zeal that we did earlier.

Topic - "Is copying western culture good for the Indian culture"

The topic is wide open. Lets inculcate the learning in the last 10-12 sessions and move forward. Let us see some sound analysis before the d-day. Start shooting

Click here for the Complete Analysis

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14 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

START- India is known all over d world 4 its rich n unique cultural heritage...our culture has been symbolic of d people we r..but of late,as a consequence of d flatteniing of d entire world on account of globalization...we find ourselves amidst a plethora of cultures nd mannerisms that appear strange 2 uur indian society...how much of it shud b welcomed by us wid open arms n where do we need 2 put a stop..is wat needs 2 b given a thought.

POINTS:

(1)The mannerisms a society chooses 2 adopt .becums its culture.Our giving a nod 2 d finer aspects dat d western culture has 2 offer is perfectly in sync wid our value system.After all,we have always been taught 2 take out d best n leave d rest.

(2)Western culture has come2 us in d form of western music,movies..nd brought wid it a flood of new fashin statements ..in d way we dress,in d way we deal wid our relationships....in short in d way we c life in general.My point is how on this earth is it bad 4 our indian culture if we listen 2Bryan Adams n not Lata Mangeshkar....we r listening 2 wat appeals 2 our ear nd in d process accepting someon who's good enough 2 entertain us..so wat if he resides in the western part of d world.

(3)Somethin thats often cited as a -ve effect of d western culture on our indian culture is d trite statement that it has eroded our value systems ..wherein d new generation does not have evn an iota of respect 4 their elders..n stuff like that.My Q. 2every1 is..Which family in dis world encourages its child 2 show disrespect towards elders....if we feel copying western culture i s resulting in this..i suggest we better do a reality check on how successfully have we ingrained these values in our children.

The Indian culture is still wat it was..its not so fragile as 2 loose ground with d whiff of an air..having said that its important that we acknowledge ourselves as a part of d world..nd keep our eyes n ears wide open so as 2 take in wat we find good about d other cultures....its entirely upto us 2 make n informed choice as 2 wat adopt nd wat not.....
I am reminded of a Rahul Dravid add in dis context- advice to sabhi dete hain ..d point is who u take it from?

ANYA...

7:34 AM, January 30, 2007  
Blogger Ronak Vasa said...

I totaly agree with the person "Anonymous" ..... The point is We ourselves can be a perfect Filter for the deeds and characteristics that we adopt.

START :

POINTS :

1>
There has been wrong things in our Country as well ... but our Values and our teachings have been so strong that we smartly Filter out wat is wrong and take up Good things.

2>
When we talk about Culture ... we can Say that No culture is bad .... the bad thing actually is wat u interpret it as!.... If you try to Learn something in anyfield there is a Correct approach , one is a Optimized Approach in between and the last is a Wrong approach.
U have to be sure wat is good for u and select the right approach

3>
An excellent example in explaining this is a small story about a Man and his donkey
A man bought a Nice Fit donkey one day and to show - off among his friend he took a ride on his back in the market ....People around said : "How bad this person is? He is unnecessarily putting weight on the poor animal when he has got his own legs" .
So , next day he let go the idea of a ride and loaded the donkey with some woods and went to the market. People around again passed comments saying "See! if he had to pick some weight he would have known the pain .... he is earning through a silent Animal and not his hard work"
So the next day he took his donkey without any type of load and he picked up all the woods. He took his Donkey as a PET ANIMAL. People again laughed and said "Waste of Money. He bought a Donkey to just give him a nice fine walk each day ..... can he use the donkey for productive work?"
The Moral says : You yourself need to know wat you require and wat u need to do. If u start living on the basis of what people tell you than u will never be living your life correctly any day as their are diff opinions of diff people and diff cultures with diff societies.

4>
The Final point i wud like to add is that our Indian Culture is seen as one of the Richest Cultures today. So a very smart thing is to preserve it as well as Make it more richer by adding some good values of the other Cultures

3:11 AM, January 31, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

unless and until we define what Indian culture and western culture has been and what can be termed as influences we can't decide on whether it has been a degrading impact or an improving one. Indian culure associates with the art forms, dance forms, architecture, familial traditions, the importance attached to "Family concept". On the other hand as anonymous said the western culutre seems projected by it's music, movies, the flambouyant life which includes partying, importance on the individual much more than "Family", his ambitions, desires and feelings, the huge importance of work life, ambitious at that. So one factor of india at odds with the western culture is the "Family" concept. having considered what western and indian culutrres stand for, we can move on to the impact western cultures has had on Indian one. Well some of the impacts which don't gel well in the indian context is the slow death which the early art forms like the classical music, dance forms, in india is experiencing. for examplw, there are hardly any one to step in to the shoes of say Pandit ravi shankar, ustad bismillah khan, or Bheem sen joshi, same case with dance too, hardly anybody to fill the void of say a Padmini or birju maharaj. The reason being the importance today's generation places on fast access to fame, the intense competition, the need for money, rather than the emphasis on learning and perpetuating an art form which had been the hall mark of all the aforementioned artistes. there is a run to make some fast bucks. The other field which has born the impact has been the family. with today's generation yearning for the personal space and not accepting any encumberances on the personal beliefs and interests, the concept of family is shrinking. the ggrowing cases of divorces, pre and extra marital affairs stand testimony for that. My next point is the blatant imitation of some things like the discos, reality shows, multiplexes. There is a "Indian idol" for an "American idol", a "KBC" for a "Who wins a million dollars", a "Big boss" for a Big brother. Even in movies, some are just copies of the hollywood versions. There is hardly any attempt to come up with something indigenous. All this may sum up the negative impacts of western culture, but there have been some positive impacts too, like the emphasis on man woman equlaity. Traditionally India has had a patriarchial society with men given more importance than women. This is evident in the dwindling sex ratios in some of developed states of India like Punjab, MP, UP etc. The prejudice which women suffer in civil services, administrative services, army, police is not unknown. Traditionally these areas have been considered men;s territory. But, today, although there still exists the prejudice, women like Salujja firodia, Kiran majumdar shaw, kiran bedi, medha patkar, arundhati roy are standing examples that women have made indroads into development. there still is a long way to go although.

9:00 PM, January 31, 2007  
Anonymous admissionmilega? said...

START - Lord Macualay once said that the backbone of this country is its cultural heritage and this has to be broken if India is to be dominated. Such was the fear or impact of our cultural heritage in those days.
200 years down the line India or Indians have accepted cultures from different parts of the world.

Disadvantages -

1) Single Parenthood , polygamy -
These have been brought to India because of Western culture. Out old tradition of single marriage is gradually fading away.

2) Joint family culture is reducing. Somewhere we have also forgottten to live together, even with our near and dear ones.

3) Fast food culture has bropught diseases like Obesity.

4) Exposure to free chanells like M , V and F Tv. These channels were not available some years back. These channels show girls and boys in revealing clothes which is far from our culture.

5) Dress sense has become more and more careless and casual. Earlier lost of efforts were taken to dress up. The comfy dress sense is somewehere more revealing than earlier times.

6) Party scenes has increased. And the level of partying has become more free. Have lead to unfortunate cases of girl being troubled at Gatweway of India.

Advantage.

1)From the past. Old customs like Sati prathas got abolished because of accepting the cultures. Superstitions are avoided.

4:41 AM, February 01, 2007  
Blogger Gyan-ee said...

Hey guys,

Analysis of this topic will come by tomorrow noon. Lets see some more people pitching in with good points.

5:01 AM, February 01, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

START:The quintessential debate of Us vs them.Are we imbibing new fresh ideas , or are we so smitten by the glamour of the west, that we forget our own rich culture?

More points:
1)I think we'll all agree, that the west holds a lot of promise in terms new ideas. Technology, thinking, openness & acceptance of change, are some things we can learn from them.

These have benefitted us immensly. India becoming the BPO hub, is due to ability to ape the American accent!

2)In terms of clothes, or music, or behaviour, we are following their trend very carefully, & aping them wihtout thought. Movies are copied frame by frame, music with copied tunes, clothes with hip-hop stlyes, down to even copied the American accent as a sense of style!

We forget fitting their styles into our lives, is like putting a sqaure peg, in a round hole.

3)Of course, this adaptable attitude we have makes us very good professionally. Since we understand them, & their culture well, we have no problems interacting & behaving the way they do. Being the largest English speaking democracy, our adaptability & openness makes us very successful.

4)This is not to say, that we lose our identity. Indians living for decades in the US, still go to temples built there, watch hindi movies, & hold huge classical music concerts.

5)As is commonly felt by elders, we are losing some of the family values that we had a few generations back. Lack of respect for elders, reckless behaviour, & pre-marital sex are some things very common now.

6)But the same freedom we have gathered from the west, makes us question wrongdoings, & age-old practices. The archaic inferiority of the girl child, the unquestioning attitude towards forceful behaviour, are all paling out, as people realize their own freedom & life.

7)We are gaining some of the spiritual values we lost in between. Yoga, prayers, mediatation, are returning to India, albeit through the west!

8)In the end, its up to us, our judgement our sense of right & wrong. For nothing is good or bad, only thinking makes it so.

If we can have a sound judgement of our own values, & still be open to western cultures & ideas, it really is not bad for us.

Aparna

PS. This topic seems tailor made for a fish market GD! Some tips on handling those situtaions please :)

10:39 PM, February 01, 2007  
Blogger Gyan-ee said...

Hey Anya,

Very clear, crisp and consistent arguments. The start was decent too. Your efforts over the last few GDs seem to be doing good for you.

Will come back with detailed comments in detailed analysis

11:31 PM, February 01, 2007  
Blogger Gyan-ee said...

Ronak,

Nice story on the donkey, but whats the point. The group will not even give you a chance of talking so long. And if they really give you a chance to talk so long, you shud not be wasting time telling a story :)

1:11 AM, February 02, 2007  
Blogger Himanshu Gupta said...

When we talk about different cultures, One of the major forces influencing such discussions is amount of interactions happening among such cultures. What we are seeing today is an increasing globalized world where different cultures are mixing, diffusing and sometimes clashing with each other. We can look at this debate of western vs indian culture from different perspectives, as whether it is really copying of west, or mixing with west, or diffusion of both cultures among each other or, is there a clash of basic values among both the cultures.

1) Any such discussion will have to start with some assumptions about Indian culture and western culture. For e.g. Family and Respect to elder's advice is given precedence in Indian Society. On the other hand, if we talk about western societies(US, Britain etc.), It is the individual's freedom which is respected more. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. A culture epitomizing individual will have more regard for entrepreneurship, new changes and shedding of old beliefs which has helped western countries adopt the capitalistic system and use it to their advantage in economic terms. Its disadvantages are that a person in times of distress might need family support which might not be there for him in times of need, which is an integral part of Indian society.

2) Many points in this discussion have been portraying FTV, MTV, divorces and pre-marital sex as evils of Western culture. I believe that it's more of triumph of western culture that they are accepting people with all kinds of views in their society. Because, more often than not, freedom is stifled in Indian society in the name of saving of Indian culture as e.g. of recent ban on AXN and our hypocritical censor board actions have shown.

3) The evils of Western culture can be said as, it puts too much pressure on an individual to be Successful in life. We've been seeing increasing cases of children doing suicides due to examination pressures. This rat-race lifestyle is surely an adaptation from the western culture and demands the family-intervention and support element in the life of an individual.

4) A good point in support of the diffusion between two cultures is the increasing popularity of Yoga in Western Society. Even texts such as Kamasutra, the number zero, the revolutionary concept of satyagraha was exported to the West from India only. So, it is wrong to say that Indians are blindly aping West. Instead it's a diffusion and mixing of these two cultures.

5) What we are witnessing isn't a blind copy of west by the east. A very good example is the changing face of advertising industry in India. Before the 1990s, we had mostly english speaking advertising professionals making ads having very little relevance with indian ethos and culture. But ultimately, Brands and companies had to change their strategies and communication to connect to indian audience as the iconic advertisements of "thanda matlab coca cola", "hamara bajaj", "Surf excel - daag dhoondhte rah jaoge" have shown. Even bollywood movies aren't a blind copy of the west. We have our dance and masala sequences still there.

6) What we are witnessing is an increasing globalized world where the economic might of the west does tend to attract a vast population of the Indian society to crave for the consumerist lifestyle of the west. There are both positives and negatives to this approach but by no means we can say that 20 years from now, India will become the New America with indians looking to the west for all identity leaders. We've had our leaders like Gandhiji, Pt. Nehru, Subhash Chandra bose. A culture is a dynamic entity and no one can claim to be its guardian. Indian culture is well alive and kicking however its dynamics are changing due the pervading effects of globalization all around the world.

- Himanshu

1:23 AM, February 02, 2007  
Blogger Himanshu Gupta said...

My doubt too is same as Aparna's. In case of a fish market, chances are that one might come off as an aggressive guy in the GD if one tries too hard to put forth his point.

One more point i want to ask is.. If someone in the GD is giving absolutely wrong data in support of his arguements. Is it OK to cut him and give the proper data even if it won't add to the ongoing flow of GD, or just ignore him and put points on which one is thinking of.

and lastly, in my comments in this group discussion.. i've been using "A very good point is".. i don't think i own that right to grade my GD points. that right rests with you only gyanee :) Anyways, is it correct to put a point in GD saying as - "A very good point in support of the statement (whatever the statement of the GD is) is.." as the panel might feel offended as the participant himself is rating his own points in front of others :)

- Himanshu

1:41 AM, February 02, 2007  
Blogger Gyan-ee said...

Admission Milega,

The start may not have given a good structure that I insist, but I would give points for the impact. You will have the advantage of the group listening to you after such an opening. You wud have capitalised if you had provided a structure for further discussion

And you have given many good examples, though you have not made your points strongly.

1:51 AM, February 02, 2007  
Blogger Gyan-ee said...

Aparna,

Very good start. Since there was not much for strucutuure, defining the topic as "we imbibing new fresh ideas , or are we so smitten by the glamour of the west, that we forget our own rich culture" gave an approach area to the group.

Some wow points too. More in detailed analysis

2:00 AM, February 02, 2007  
Blogger Gyan-ee said...

Hi Himanshu,

Do not cut a guy with wrong data if he is offtrack. It is just wasting your time. Cut him if he is making a counter argument (being in the mainstream) and using the data to substantiate. Afterall there are points for knowledge too and you are showing it.

As far as the good point query goes, the panel wont feel offended but it is not a good idea to use it often. If it is often, the panel will certainly note and the group may not like it. And when the panel notices that the group does not like it, it is negative.

Actually, try and avoid any such idiosyncracies altogether. But do not let this into your conciousness. Many times people concentrate too much on the way they sit and forget making good points.

2:58 AM, February 02, 2007  
Blogger Gyan-ee said...

Points that need refinement
1.The Indian culture is still wat it was..its not so fragile as 2 loose ground with d whiff of an air ---- Do you really believe that our culture has not changed from how it was during our grandparent’s time?
2. If you try to Learn something in anyfield there is a Correct approach , one is a Optimized Approach in between and the last is a Wrong approach --- too heavy and hence the group will ignore and move ahead
3. The donkey story – Ronak, the group will not even allow you to speak that long
4. The Final point i wud like to add is that our Indian Culture is seen as one of the Richest Cultures today. So a very smart thing is to preserve it as well as Make it more richer by adding some good values of the other Cultures ---- That is a very generic statement. In a GD, your points should be more than just being good intentions
4. Out old tradition of single marriage is gradually fading away ---- Ha ha haaa, we never had monogamy culturally. That is why Lord Ram was a rarity and is singled out as Maryada Purushottam for having one wife

Good points with my comments
1. Our giving a nod 2 d finer aspects dat d western culture has 2 offer is perfectly in sync wid our value system. After all,we have always been taught 2 take out d best n leave d rest
2. how on this earth is it bad 4 our indian culture if we listen 2Bryan Adams n not Lata Mangeshkar....we r listening 2 wat appeals 2 our ear nd in d process accepting someon who's good enough 2 entertain us..so wat if he resides in the western part of d world ---- Good point made
3. if we feel copying western culture is resulting in bad influence ..i suggest we better do a reality check on how successfully have we ingrained these values in our children ---- Brownie. Personally I like introspection and hence give brownie points to people bringing in personal responsibility fundae. So there may be a little bias here :)
4. I am reminded of a Rahul Dravid add in dis context- advice to sabhi dete hain ..d point is who u take it from? ---- point put well with a nice example. Though I may not agree here, the group will certainly listen to this and that’s positive
5. having said that its important that we acknowledge ourselves as a part of d world..nd keep our eyes n ears wide open so as 2 take in wat we find good about d other cultures --- good sum up to the points that you have made till now
6. When we talk about Culture ... we can Say that No culture is bad .... the bad thing actually is wat u interpret it as ---- Don’t agree with you, but a points made in a way that the group will listen :) I would rather say that every culture has a bad things in it.
7. western culutre seems projected by importance on the individual much more than "Family", his ambitions, desires and feelings, the huge importance of work life, ambitious at that. So one factor of india at odds with the western culture is the "Family" concept ---- good since you are trying to bring in clarity in clutter
8. Some of the impacts which don't gel well in the indian context is the slow death which the early art forms like the classical music, dance forms, in india is experiencing
9. The reason being the importance today's generation places on fast access to fame, the intense competition, the need for money, rather than the emphasis on learning and perpetuating an art form
10. The other field which has born the impact has been the family. with today's generation yearning for the personal space and not accepting any encumberances on the personal beliefs and interests, the concept of family is shrinking
11. blatant imitation of some things like the discos, reality shows, multiplexes. There is a "Indian idol" for an "American idol", a "KBC" for a "Who wins a million dollars", a "Big boss" for a Big brother ---- good examples
12. Traditionally India has had a patriarchial society with men given more importance than women ---- not true in kerala and bunts community (Aish Rai).
13. The prejudice which women suffer in civil services, administrative services, army, police is not unknown. But, today, although there still exists the prejudice, women like Salujja firodia, Kiran majumdar shaw, kiran bedi, medha patkar, arundhati roy are standing examples that women have made indroads into development
14. Joint family culture is reducing. Somewhere we have also forgottten to live together, even with our near and dear ones
15. Fast food culture has bropught diseases like Obesity
16. From the past. Old customs like Sati prathas got abolished because of accepting the cultures. Superstitions are avoided
17. I think we'll all agree, that the west holds a lot of promise in terms new ideas. Technology, thinking, openness & acceptance of change, are some things we can learn from them. These have benefitted us immensely ---- fresh and good idea
18. We forget fitting their styles into our lives, is like putting a sqaure peg, in a round hole ---- Such statements make impact in a fish market GD and carries your point straight and clear.
19. Of course, this adaptable attitude we have makes us very good professionally. Since we understand them, & their culture well, we have no problems interacting & behaving the way they do. Being the largest English speaking democracy, our adaptability & openness makes us very successful ---- good interpretation Indians living for decades in the US, still go to temples built there, watch hindi movies, & hold huge classical music concerts --- cool point
20. We are gaining some of the spiritual values we lost in between. Yoga, prayers, mediatation, are returning to India, albeit through the west! --- wow point
21. If we can have a sound judgement of our own values, & still be open to western cultures & ideas, it really is not bad for us ---- nice sum up
22. We can look at this debate of western vs indian culture from different perspectives, as whether it is really copying of west, or mixing with west, or diffusion of both cultures among each other or, is there a clash of basic values among both the cultures ---- good start
23. A culture epitomizing individual will have more regard for entrepreneurship, new changes and shedding of old beliefs which has helped western countries adopt the capitalistic system and use it to their advantage in economic terms. Its disadvantages are that a person in times of distress might need family support which might not be there for him in times of need, which is an integral part of Indian society
24. I believe that it's more of triumph of western culture that they are accepting people with all kinds of views in their society. Because, more often than not, freedom is stifled in Indian society in the name of saving of Indian culture as e.g. of recent ban on AXN and our hypocritical censor board actions have shown
25. A good point in support of the diffusion between two cultures is the increasing popularity of Yoga in Western Society. Even texts such as Kamasutra, the number zero, the revolutionary concept of satyagraha was exported to the West from India only. So, it is wrong to say that Indians are blindly aping West. Instead it's a diffusion and mixing of these two cultures ---- good angle to the discussion
26. What we are witnessing isn't a blind copy of west by the east. A very good example is the changing face of advertising industry in India. Before the 1990s, we had mostly english speaking advertising professionals making ads having very little relevance with indian ethos and culture. But ultimately, Brands and companies had to change their strategies and communication to connect to indian audience as the iconic advertisements of "thanda matlab coca cola", "hamara bajaj", "Surf excel - daag dhoondhte rah jaoge" have shown. Even bollywood movies aren't a blind copy of the west. We have our dance and masala sequences still there --- good counterpoint
27. There are both positives and negatives, but by no means we can say that 20 years from now, India will become the New America with indians looking to the west for all identity leaders ---- good perspective
28. A culture is a dynamic entity and no one can claim to be its guardian. Indian culture is well alive and kicking however its dynamics are changing due the pervading effects of globalization all around the world. --- cool sum up

3:00 AM, February 02, 2007  

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