Monday, February 26, 2007

I Need to Wake Up

Hey guys,

Here comes a post that has been so different from what you have seen from my desk. The GDs have paused since most of you are busy with your GD/PI schedules. I also have a GD to analyse that has been pending for sometime and I will try and do it by tomorrow.

Since we have been discussing issues of national and international importance over so many GDs and proposing ways of doing things better, I thought I shud put in the Lyrics of the song that won the Oscar this year - "I Need to Wake Up". This is from a documentary "An inconvinient truth" that also won the best documentary oscar and starred Al Gore. It talks about the Global warming and the effects humans are having on the environment.

After it was released in US last year, many in US repented on having chosen Bush over Gore. And the country felt sad on having been ignorant and casual about the environmental impact it is having on mother earth. Well, I feel it is not just for the Presidents to work on it. Let us see what we can also do as individuals. If not anything else, just the conciousness itself will be good to begin with.

Please use the comments section freely on what we can do at an individual level for a better environment. When we were discussing the 'infrastructure issues' in a GD I had put in a point saying that "We shud try and leave our car behind to office atleast one day in a week" as a small individual contribution. And I have personally tried to implement it and I have been doing good so far. Let us see more things coming in. I promise I will rake my brains to come up with one additional idea for every three you give.

Couple of points on the idea you give
1. It shud not tell the Govt what to do. It has to be at individual level.
2. It shud be implementable and not grandiose. E.g., If you say let us walk to work, no one will implement it and hence the idea will go waste.
3. You shud be committed to do it yourself.
4. We shud be able to implement it starting NOW.

Here goes the lyrics. Enjoy reading it.

Have I been sleeping?
I’ve been so still
Afraid of crumbling
Have I been careless?
Dismissing all the distant rumblings
Take me where I am supposed to be
To comprehend the things that I can’t see

Cause I need to move
I need to wake up
I need to change
I need to shake up
I need to speak out
Something’s got to break up
I’ve been asleep
And I need to wake up

And as a child
I danced like it was 1999
My dreams were wild
The promise of this new world
Would be mine
Now I am throwing off the carelessness of youth
To listen to an inconvenient truth

That I need to move
I need to wake up
I need to change

I need to shake up
I need to speak out
Something’s got to break up
I’ve been asleep
And I need to wake up

I am not an island
I am not alone
I am my intentions
Trapped here in this flesh and bone

And I need to move
I need to wake up
I need to change
I need to shake up
I need to speak out
Something’s got to break up
I’ve been asleep
And I need to wake up

I want to change
I need to shake up
I need to speak out
Oh, Something’s got to break up
I’ve been asleep
And I need to wake up


Monday, February 19, 2007

Good news

Hey guys,

I got some good news from couple of active participants in the group that they got into SIMB. Congratulations and it is heartening to note that your hardwork has paid good dividends. I am sure there is more good news to come from others as time progresses.

I have been writing little on the blog these days since I am pretty busy answering the interview and form questions on email. I am having a tight schedule at work too.But do not get disheartened as I will be back by tomorrow putting up some good stuff before the last rounds of interview.

So lets rock the last rounds, aim higher and crack the final laps

Thursday, February 15, 2007

Solutions to Key talking points 6

1. Most of the time, with reduced inflation, the farmer gets a lower rate for his produce. At the same time he spends less on the goods he buys. But note that there is a negative impact on his savings. So he may be on the slight negative side.
Curbing inflation may mean that only the end price is reduced and may sometime have little impact on the price that the farmer gets. (E.g., in case of petrol price cut). In that case he does not get affected.

2. It will have downward impact.
Increased interest rates means more savings and lesser money supply in the market. Hence downward impact. Also real estate prices will go down and hence downward impact again.

3. It will have an upward impact.
No tax benefits mean that people don’t save as much and hence upward impact with increased money supply. But also note that this may be a little dented, since Government collects 30% of that money as tax and hence may be able to control the impact to an extent.

4. It will have a downward impact.
Real estate will go down. Though it is not a part of WPI/CPI, it will have a downward impact on inflation. The price of the tomatoes you buy from foodworld (or even the local market) also includes the real estate cost to certain extent. Lesser money in real estate market means lower money supply too and hence downward impact again.
The money (tax part) shifts hand from people to the Government. And hence Government has the ability to control better

5. Negative inflation is a sign of recession. Inflation is a sign of a growing economy. But if it is high, the positives from the growth are dented.

Click here for the questions


Tuesday, February 13, 2007

Topic "Chinese Threat..." - Complete Analysis

Hi guys,

The discussion was brief and the participation low. Inspite of this, I think the topic was well covered. I would have liked to see some more details on ‘what needs to be done’, while the group concentrated on ‘what the situation is’. A surprise was that the group did not perceive China as a big threat. Though it is true in the short term, we still need to be prepared for the long term surge. India is already losing the cost advantage that it had 10 years back due to increased labor cost. So unless we brace up and shed complacency, we may go down.

Some of my points
1. The IT major should open shops in China. If you can’t beat them, join them. Many of them have already done so. They will be able to understand their strengths better and will be able to complement with their strengths in India. Also they will be able to use their expertise added with the low cost labor of China. In the beginning this can be used to address Asian market and later on to expand elsewhere.

2. We are already getting out of the cost advantage with the rising salary costs. So if we have to do good in future, we need to worry about optimization, innovation, better usage of the knowledge repository etc rather than worry just about the cost advantage of China

3. English language may be an advantage. But the future growth of the Indian IT industry will be fueled by European and Asian markets. We have the same language disadvantage as compared to China when it comes to Europe and Rest of Asia. Shouldn't we do something right now to pre-empt rather than wait for the bull to arrive?

4. China itself will be a large IT market in the future and the Indian companies should be positioning themselves to cater to this rather than losing out

5. Only a small part of India’s domestic IT market is addressed by India. Can Chinese companies hit us here like they have hit our toy manufacturing?

6. China can also acquire some of the Indian companies to understand and develop expertise. Though we should not be trying to prevent this, we should still be ready for the competition

7. China has been investing billions of dollars on its universities. It is time India spent more on its education. We pride ourselves of a huge pool of knowledge workers and it is appalling to see how less we spend on primary and higher education

For good points made by the group and comments on them, Click Here

Read some of the articles below that give good points on the topic

How China can win over Indian IT
Good balanced Analysis on the subject
Can China Beat India - An article in the Hindu
TCS has new joint venture in China

Additional reading – The Chinese plan for IT in their five year plans
Plans for IT in Chinese five year plan

Monday, February 12, 2007

Key Talking Points 6

With Bangalore standing still, the posts on the blog grounded to a halt on Monday. So the analysis for the last two topics are pending and are coming in a while. I had allowed more time hoping for a larger participation.

I am also enthused by the fact that many people wrote to me that they discovered the site a few days back and found it very useful. That is feel-good factor for me as I have tried to give my best.

So as we head for the last rounds of GD, here comes a Key Talking Points relevant to the recent issue. Though we had covered inflation before, knowing your love for govt-shud-do-this and govt-shud-do-this, I thot you guys will have a lot to say on this :)

Recently the inflation has gone up and everyone seems to be concerned.
1. Since inflation is calculated on the basis of 'basket of essential goods' that contain mostly agricultural products, is curbing inflation negative from a farmer's perspective?
2. Does increase in the interest rates have a downward impact on inflation?
3. If the Govt removes 'tax benifit' on tax savings bonds, will it have an upward impact on inflation?
4. If the Govt removes 'tax benifit' on house loans, will it have an upward impact on inflation?
5. Since there is so much negative feeling about inflation, is having a negative inflation a good sign for an economy?

All the questions are very simple. All you need to do is THINK. So oil your brains and let your thinking flow.

Click here for the answers

Click Here for previous Talking Point


Thursday, February 08, 2007

Topic for the Day - Take 14

Hey Guys,

Here is an interesting and deeply political and historical topic. There is a wide scope for arguments and counter-arguments. Also there is a wide scope for discussions from various angles. So take the opportunity and get cracking.

"Would converting LOC into border solve kashmir issue. And should India agree to such a solution"

Please keep two things in mind.
1. Avoid over-bashing Pakistan
2. Avoid bashing Indian politicians

Since this being one of the last opportunities for a good GD practice before the D-day, give good thought and inculcate the learning of the past.

The analysis of the previous GD will come soon.

Previous Topic


Wednesday, February 07, 2007

Solutions to Key Talking Point 5

Hi guys,

Here comes my analysis of the situation. My answers are at logger-heads with all comments. So if you disagree after reading my answers, lets have a discussion.

Note that the audience of cable channels and DD are almost mutually exclusive. Most people who have cable, though they get DD, do not watch it these days (Anybody contesting this??:). Hence the ordinance gives an opportunity to the right holders to reach an audience that they never reached before, and also they get paid for it (Additional 75% of DD ad revenues)

1. The revenues from current broadcast will not go down since the audience has remained the same. Will get additional revenue (75% of DD Ads) by sharing it with DD. Hence the total Ad revenue goes up

2. Current cable subscribers who subscribe channels only for certain events will drop out and hence may be harmful to some extent. Boquet offerings like Sony, Zee etc who give a bunch of channels may suffer lesser
They will still retain many viewers because of post match analysis, highlights, other sports etc
On the positive side, they get to reach a wider audience and hence more ad revenue.
The above points may balance out slightly towards the positive side for the right holders

3. No, since it gets hardly any Ad revenue for the whole day telecast. Considering that it cud have sold those slots for better Ads. Note that DD still will gets good Ad revenue since it reaches an audience that other channels wont. Plus it gets lot of Govt Ads too
It will benifit if it puts the feed only in DD sports, which is languishing completely

4. Since overall it looks positive for the cable industry, the future biddings would go up.

5. No. You dont want DD to turn a mirror of other sport channels. DD will suffer in the long run.

Additionally, the cable industry may want to insist that they shud be given rights to sell the Ad space rather than DD doing it. With a strong stake, they will be able to sell higher.
Also understand the difference between wider audience Vs target audience that I have described in detail in the comments section of the case. Click here to go

In short, plus for people, plus for cable, negative for DD. So it is a political master stroke. It takes a little revenue out of DD and invests it in the political future of Congress.

Parting shot (In support of my take)
If it were to have a negative impact, cable guys would have protested or gone to court. The very fact that they have not done it shows it is positive for them :)

Click here for the questions


Lets run the last laps harder

Hey guys,

Noting that many of you have your GD and PI this month, and that some have finished, I am thinking of closing the GD topic sessions after another two topics. And I want to choose topics in areas that you want me to cover. Let me know in the comments section as to what you want and that’s what you will have.

Till now, we have had wonderful sessions. If you track all the GDs from the beginning, you would clearly see that the group has improved a lot. Thanks to the active participation and enthusiasm of many regulars. I will try and compile my personal comments for the regulars so that it may help in the GD.

And since we have not concentrated on PI till now, lets do some work in that area. There are two ways I want to take it.
1. Send me your answers for the usual questions and I shall edit it for you. Questions like ‘tell me something about yourself’ etc. You can send it to gmail ID if you don’t want to reveal about yourself :) For the other regular questions click here
2. Send me your background and I shall send you a set of possible questions that may arise. E.g., if you have worked in a CMM company for 3 years, you may get questions as to ‘why processes are important?’ or ‘does too much emphasis on process undermine creativity?’ etc. Same as above, you can send it to me on Gmail or put it in comments.

Also for those who are in Bangalore and want to have personal PI sessions, we can meet this Saturday between 11 AM to 1 PM. I guess only 3 or 4 people can be accommodated, so it would be more of first come first serve. Only issue is that we will not be able to have it at home this time. So you will have to treat me to a coffee in coffee day/Barista/Coffee world and the location has to be close to Koramangala. Anyway drop a comment if you are interested.

Tuesday, February 06, 2007

Topic "Stock market boom..." - Complete analysis

When you think that you don’t know much about a topic, try and draw parallels. Note that the boom in the stock market is similar to the real estate boom and hence you can derive lot of points from there. Read the points below and try to relate to the real estate market and you will see parallels.

About reading up about the markets, I am sure you can find a lot of material on the net. Beware that many analysis on the net may be leaning towards the current market sentiment (bullish). When the market is going up, analysts say it will go up. When it goes down, they say market is booking profits. When I goes further down, they say it was anyway overheated and is consolidating. If it goes down further, they say market sentiment is weak and investor has to be cautious :)

I think we have covered decent number of points here avoiding the clutter. And you can do deeper analysis in the next two years of your MBA

My additional points for the group (I have avoided being too technical and heavy)
Reasons for going up
1. The equity market has matured more. That means that there are enough buyers and sellers. It also means that the price discovery is based on valuation, rather than rumors and sentiments

2. More retail buyers as it is easier to trade than it was a few years ago. Online trading also has come into picture and with a lot of money with the IT industry, good investments have come from the retail investors

3. The consistent strong results across sectors quarter after quarter has fueled the market.

4. There is a lot of bullish sentiment on the future of the economy and the top companies. So strong results and strong outlook for the future have fuelled the growth in the market

5. The futures and options market is maturing well. Hence there are more balancing factors in the market now.

6. Though there have been some scares before, it is not true that FIIs can just pack up one day and leave when they see a better prospect. They are prudent investors and spread their risk. Any other country like China will have to prove themselves for long (like India has done for almost 15 years now). Sometimes, even a small FII withdrawal can cause market panic, which may not have a strong basis.

1. The PE ratios are on the higher side even with the confidence. It is difficult to believe that the confidence has doubled in just one year.

2. Though some of these positive factors have been there for a long time, the rise has been recent and sharp adding to the concern that there is some speculation involved

3. There have been many market manipulations that have been caught recently. This may indicate that the market still needs to be cautious

Good points made by the group
1. Strong FII money flow has had a strong positive impact

2. Good monsoon for the last two years.
----- Remember many industries like FMCG, Auto etc are almost directly impacted by monsoon

3. US/European money flowing in search of better returns is a very good point.
----- It is not necessarily coming because of the slowdown though, but because India is in a growth phase and US in a mature stage. (It is like investing in growth stocks Vs Blue chip stocks)

4. There has been a broad based rally. This shows the confidence in the country as a whole rather than an industry or a few companies

5. US trade deficit is a cause for concern.


Get regular updates of the blog

Hey guys,

Here are some of the ways how you can utilize the group learning we have done at the blog. I think it is time that we consolidate on the learning since the interview time is nearing.

1. Join the Google CatFundae egroup at By this you get emails on all the comments posted by the people on the blog. Gmail ID is not necessary. If you do not want to give your usual ID, create a new one and become a member of the group.
2. For those who are a little technologically advances, you can use Feedburner RSS feeds by clicking on the orange button on the sidebar here. RSS feeds give you the ability to track any blog/website. You also have an option of email in this too, though all the updates may come at the end of the day.
3. You can also track the blog on Technorati by adding to the favourites with the green button on the sidebar. Technorati is a leader in blog tracking and also rates various blogs.
4. Go through the links on the sidebar and it will link you through to all the portions of the blog
5. You can use the search on the sidebar if you know what you are looking for.

Any other help needed, please drop in a comment and let me see what we can do.

As far as the analysis for the GDs are concerned, it is going to come by evening.

Sunday, February 04, 2007

Solutions to Key talking point - 4

Click here for Key Talking points 4
Hey guys,

I was surprised that not many people were keen on reading the articles and answering the questions. Though I think that it is a great way of learning and we shud all read well, I did not get a great buy-in from the group. I even registered on NYtimes so that everyone need not waste time.

Anyway, my comments and points together

Article #1
1. Aparna was right, business gets affected. Real estate value does decrease, but I guess little does the govt bother.
Additionally, people travelling thru the area get taxed for no reason.
People having offices/businesses also get taxed for daily travel.
Traffic may slow down because of toll booths
--- Can we alternatively have high parking fee so that office-goers and pass-thru-commuters dont get affected? Or can we remove parking altogether from main roads and have parking bulidings (could be private too)

2. Very good points by Aparna on this, especially point 3. I think an extension of point 2 is that people get used to public transport (as long as govt ensures there is enough)

Article #2
1. Since the demand for corn goes up, the corn prices go up and hence more people would shift to growing corn (instead of rice, wheat etc). Hence the supply of other agricultural products reduce causing inflation.
On the balancing side, fuel prices may go down in short term (in long term they have to stabilise) and hence will have a downward impact on inflation

Other things
1. World would be a cleaner place and global warming may go down
2. India would benifit because of lower oil dependancy

Any more additions and comments from people are welcome

Click here for Key Talking points 4


Friday, February 02, 2007

Topic for the day - Take 13

Click here for Complete Analysis by moderator

Hey guys,

Here comes the GD topic for the weekend. China being the favourite of many, I am sure there will be pretty interesting points.

"Chinese competition to Indian IT industry - How to take the bull by the horn"

I want to see people come up with various threats that we face and how Indian companies can mitigate them.

Things from my side
1. I have not done the analysis for the stock market GD. The participation level was a dampner, but I will give a good session on that by Monday
2. Do read up the Key talking points sessions and try the answers. I am sure they add value. If you think that they are not adding value, drop a comment and I shall discontinue. Click here for the latest and Click here for KTP 4
3. When you drop comments for this GD, also drop in the dates of your GDs so that I can see what topics we can cover when. If you want some specific area to be discussed, let me know
4. If people want personal advice on something they can mail me at
5. Himanshu had said that it is difficult to track comments without coming to the website. I am trying to see if I can send out mails to people when people put in comments. Send me your email IDs if you want that subscription to . If you want to be anonymous, create a new ID and send
6. You can also track the new posts in the blog by using technorati that you can see on the right sidebar. Many of you may be already using it
7. You can now search all the previous posts by using the search bar on the right sidebar.
8. Google has now indexed the blog and it appears when you hit search for cat fundae :)

Click here for Complete Analysis by moderator

Previous Topic
Next Topic


Topic "Copying western culture"... Complete Analysis

I think the group has done a good job especially with the limitations that the topic had. The topic was chosen because it was very very difficult to rise above average in such a discussion.

My comments
1. Many people in the group gave many examples rather than drawing inferences out of this. Do not get yourself into such a trap. If you give 10 examples for the same thing that you want to say, you will not get 10 points :)

2. Try and summarise from the examples and see if you can make strong statements. That is what catches attention when everyone is talking mundane things. I have attempted that in Point No 1

3. Try and see if you can hairsplit the meaning of the topic. My attempt in point No 2
Try and see if you can bring a twist. The topic does not offer much scope, but that’s when a twist has more value :) I have attempted one twist in ‘My points’ (point No 3)

4. Counter points add value too. When someone talks about an obvious example of negative effect, try and see if there is anything positive even there. I have attempted that in Point no 4 and 5

5. Inspite of all the value adding points above, you would still need to give average examples and make average conclusions :) this is to ensure that you are constantly involved and pick up small points too

6. And as your guys pointed, this could turn to a fish market. I have written about it in detail at How to handle a Fish market GD some time back. If it is not good enough, let me know and I shall make another attempt

My points
1. Culture is what we inherit from our forefathers. But if culture were not to change, we would still have been in stone-age. So any culture is constantly changing. As a society we collectively decide, what to change and what not.

2. Copying is not good, but borrowing is. While we are selective when borrowing, we will not be when we copy

3. When we are talking about the degradation of culture, more individualism, running after money etc, are we talking about ‘the urban India’

4. People talked about growing divorce cases ---- does many divorces mean woman is more empowered now rather than saying that couples fight more now. So probably it is positive for the culture

5. People said there are more extra marital affairs now ---- Note that there has been a reduction in polygamy also (My grand dad had 2 wives). And it could be that people are more open about it these days. So we may be moving from a male dominated culture to the one of equality. I think that is positive.

For detailed analysis of each point made by people Click here


Key Talking Points 5

Hey guys,

Here comes some simple questions on a recent Govt decision

Govt of India has decided to make an ordinance regarding cricket telecast. The ordinance makes it mandatory for the rights holders of sporting events to share advertisement-free live broadcast signals with Doordarshan. DD will sell advertising time for these matches and give 75 per cent of the earnings to the rights holder, using the remaining 25 per cent to promote non-sponsored games on radio and TV.

Questions on this are as follows
1. Will this add to the revenues of the right holders?
2. Will it be good for the cable industry in long term?
3. Will Doordarshan benifit from this?
4. What effect will it have on the future biddings for Cricket telecast in India?
5. Should it be done for other sports also?

I wanted to have a GD on this. But thought that people shud be thinking more in pinpoint terms. So you are free to add anything extra if you want apart from the answers to this.

For complete news Click Here

People dont seem to have read the previous key talking point or they have shied away from answering. Reading is a very important part of preparation for a GD.

Click here for the answers

Click Here for previous Talking Point
Click Here for Next Talking Point


Thursday, February 01, 2007

GD - How to handle cases

Hey guys,

Here comes the article that I had promised a few days back. People have been going great guns in Case GDs apart from being splendid in ‘Vague topics’. So I think all I am doing here is consolidating our learning. Also as I had complained in my posts, the starts were not great and hence some fundae and examples on that. The fundae on start in ironically at the end of the post :) I have taken the example of the real estate case to elucidate the points.
Click here to go to real estate case

1. Note that any case will always be short of information and that is deliberate. Gather facts, draw inferences and also make assumptions (be sensible and logical at that) in the first couple of minutes before the discussion begins

2. Assumptions: In this case could be “they have decent savings”, “though they have a degree in management, they may not be good at marketing since they do not have experience on that” etc

3. Inferences: Examples for this case. “Since they are skeptical on huge investments upfront, cost will be an important factor while deciding on the location”. Another example is “Since they have huge experience in developing and managing website projects, then can design the website themselves and hire less experienced people to cut costs”

4. Avoid reiterating the facts unless you are drawing inferences out of it. E.g., do not say Puru wants Jaipur and Shuru wants Bangalore and to decide on it, they have to consider costs. Note that the first part is not necessary and does not flow into the second part. And someone in the group may cut you on that

5. When you make assumptions and inferences, make sure that the group buys in. Else they will not even listen to your conclusions.

6. Think about the solution in a very structured manner. (Software guys can relate to tree structure :)) (Also, read the example below to make sure that this does not look like global gyan :)) That will help you in the start too.
E.g., In the Real estate case, your thinking has to go thus
A. If I have to decide on the location, what are the factors that matter to consider a location. Say, cost, target market, advertiser location
B. Now in cost what are the factors. Say rentals, salaries and setting up
C. Now in rentals, see which is better and what the cost difference is. See if you can mitigate that (As someone suggested that though Bangalore was more expensive than Jaipur, you can mitigate by putting office in outskirts). Then you understand that rental cost doesn’t matter
D. Now in salary costs, again see which location is better. See what is the actual cost difference and understand if it is big enough to be considered. And see if you can mitigate that (group may or may not agree on this. But fine)
E. Now target market. Decide who is the target market and what is their profile. Once done, see if your location matters to them
F. so on and so forth….

7. Make sure that you have the end in mind while you are putting across arguments. E.g., when the question is ‘what should X do to sell more soaps’, you should not be questioning why the hell should he sell more soaps when he already making good money J Many in the real estate case were talking about the Government help in Jaipur. But they did not conclude that Government help is an important factor in deciding the location.

8. Once you bring in structure, it is easier to avoid going in loops. It helps you discuss things point by point.

9. When the group comes to a partial conclusion midway, make sure everybody has understood that. Summarize and move ahead so that the same arguments are not revisited.
E.g., In the ‘real estate case’, say the group agrees that rental costs do not differ greatly across locations. So say that, ‘Since group agrees that rental costs do not differ greatly, let us explore what other factors are important while choosing location’.
Otherwise the group keeps coming back to the same points again. Note that you need not be very categorical always, but have to do it for important conclusions that derive out of the discussion

10. Keep thinking of things midway too when people are making points. Make sure you listen to the group intently and derive some points for yourself

11. Once you reach any conclusion, look back and see if this affects any other conclusion previously reached. E.g., in the real estate case, when we reached the conclusion that VC is very much necessary, note that the very decision of location may not rest with Puru and Shuru. Hence any decision reached by the group on location may not be valid :)

12. Take a note of the risks involved in the decisions. E.g., The group decides that Bangalore is better because of better talent. Risk in this case is higher attrition since people have more opportunities too.

13. Keep making notes throughout as you may have to summarize in the end.

14. Cliché but true -- think out of the box

15. Start: As always you need to give structure and direction (Outlining the solution). Specific to case GDs, lay out the inferences and the way the group should discuss the case. If someone disagrees with a part of the structure, they will say that and the group will proceed once a basic structure is decided.
Example of start in the real estate case: Puru and Shuru have to decide on a location for the venture and if they have to go for a VC. For location we have to consider what factors influence the choice between the two and evaluate them. The factors could be cost, target market and advertiser location. (The chances are someone may pitch in here which is fine). While deciding on VC funding, they have to see what the VC brings in to the table and see what they can give in return for that. They will also have to decide on the timing, if they go for a VC.

I hope I have covered all the areas. If you have any comments, disagreements or better ways, it is open to discussion. Lets bounce the ideas and learn better.